The second and last of two trains that carried wind turbine parts originally loaded onto two ships in Denmark and discharged at Duluth left the Port Terminal today (June 22, 2010). Here it has just emerged from the BNSF rail yard in Duluth on its way beside I-35 to the Grassy Point Bridge and then into Superior on the first leg of its journey to Casper, Wyoming. The pieces will later be taken by truck to their final destination, Duke Energy’s “Top of the World” 101.2-megawatt project in Converse County, Wyoming. Like the first unit train on June 4, this will be a joint move by Union Pacific and BNSF Railway.
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{ 20 comments… read them below or add one }
Five years from now these wind turbines will be sold for scrap. This is the fate of so many of these projects. Once all the tax subsidies expire, they will be shut down as uneconomical to run. Wind and solar electricity cost about 9 times the going rate for electricity.
Spoken like someone with an investment in oil. Or “clean coal”?
Wind = Renewable
Oil/Coal=Non Renewable
Doubt the tax subsidies are going away thanks to our friends at BP. I wouldn’t doubt that BP strongly starts investing in “clean energy” soon for PR reasons.
And what is so wrong with the port doing buisness? Looks like a win win for everyone.
There are two wind turbines just south of the Mackinac Bridge and they have been there for more than 5 years. The neighbors do complain of the noise they make.
Just look at the Gulf and think about your statements.
We need to do something other then burning fossil fuels.
You could put your head in the sand but considering what
the beaches are looking like today in Florida you might
get a black face from the oil. Pensacola beach is a mess.
I’m embarrassed to own a SUV frankly. We are all part of the problem if you can admit that fact or not? Imagine that oil spill on Lake Superior instead of the Gulf of Mexico and you really get to thinking about it.
Bill, If you think wind energy is a waste of money, than what is do you than we need to do? Obviously fossil fuels will not last forever. We need to start thinking about alternative forms of energy and I can’t think of anything that is wrong with producing our own clean energy. Wind, solar and geothermal also provide jobs that cannot be outsourced.
You are looking at a train load of out sourced jobs. These were not made here. They were shiped in on a non US Flaged ship. What US jobs?
There is an abandoned wind farm in Hawaii no one knows what to do with. The rusting turbines are also leaking oil.
I am not against wind or solar power. We just have to understand it is 9 times more expensive than coal, oil, or nuclear power.
Solar is only good during the day time. And at it’s best only on a sunny day.
Wind only works when the wind blows at just the right speed. Too little or much, it is shut down.
So I we only had solar or wind, you couldn’t use your computer on a calm night. No power even for traffic lights! Talk about grid lock!
We have centuries of oil, gas, and coal. That is if a certain party will get the heck out of the way. We have wasted 30+ years in NOT building nuclear plants. Again due to a certain party.
It is time to get real on energy in this nation. Solar and wind ain’t it.
I don’t own any stock except for a small mutual fund. I just go with the facts.
Bill G.
Actually the wind speed is becoming less of a factor. The blades now can be ‘feathered’ like a propeller on an airplane. I have lots of traffic signs that are now solar powered they seem to work fine at night or in low daylight conditions. What everyone should realize that we need every option available solar, hydro, geothermal, wind, oil, coal, and nuclear. There is a balance we have to find it then we will be fine for the future.
Hi Ken,
Wondering if you have an email where I could contact you?
Thanks,
Steve Campbell
What we have to understand is that the subsidies we all pay via our taxes are what is making wind/solar possible. If the free market is allowed to function wind/solar or whatever will appear. And it will be more cost effective than what other energy sources are avalable. Some one is making alot of money off these wind turbines, follow our tax money and the truth will be in front of your nose. Personaly I would love to have wind and solar for my home, living off the grid is real appealing now days. But the cost, and return on my investment. It is not realistic. Do not be fooled. It is your tax dollars at work.
The jobs I was referring to are the one that will be created from the production of the energy. And yes, I understand that we can’t just shut off the oils wells. What we need is a combination of all energy and more efficient cars. It is more then just energy consumption. We also have to think about the side effects of producing this energy. I am not trying to get into a global warming debate, but isn’t it better to error on the side of caution.
I am not against wind or solar. But I also know there is no magic there either. Both are very expensive at 9 times the going rate for electricity. In short, without huge amounts of tax payer money, the trubines as a business are bankrupt from the start. And we are fast going broke now! The nation can’t afford this stuff.
We have “green” groups that want to shut down all nuclear, coal, oil, gas, hydro, and even wind & solar to generate electricity. You see wind turbines kill birds. We can’t have that now can we? There are even green groups against solar because it shades the ground and hurts the enviroment. You can’t win with them!
A great place for geothermal is Yellowstone, but we can’t even think about that.
To go green is to go completely dark like North Korea. I don’t want to live like that!
Bill G.
Other countries use subsidies such as Germany with solar panels on private homes. I believe that country has more solar then any other country in the world. Private citizens can’t bear the entire cost and if you wait until they can you have lost a great deal of time. Instead of money to Iraq I’d rather see it going to subsidies for alternative energy. You have to start somewhere. I recall all the talk in 1974-75 about energy saving during that crisis. That was a long time ago. We don’t seem to be too progressive in the US.
Good discussion!
Keep in mind many of the big wind manufacturers have or are building plants in the U.S.
The competition is fierce to lure the plants and vendors to specific regions. Some plants have actually exported components–so don’t be surprised if the unit trains in the future aren’t coming to the Port for export. If we produce quality components at a competitive cost–we’ll have a thriving industry. The jury is still out comparing the cost of wind with the full cost of Nukes or coal. Competition between the sources of energy will make them all more efficient in the long run.
I have also read that wind power is 9 times more expensive than coal. My home electrical bill is $70 per month. There is no way I can afford for my home utility bill to rise to $630 per month. As much as it would be nice to move away from coal, America can’t afford to run on wind.
Wyoming is the destination for these turbines. That state has led the nation in both wind and solar power for decades. When I lived there in the 90′s, my electric bill was nominal as a result of wind power.
I know it has been brought up here and I have read it other places as well that it up to 9x more expensive then coal. The problem with that statement is that it applies to the set up and maintenance cost only. The wind farms have a very low overhead (ex: No large piles of coal to buy). I can see where large expenses are true. Rather than setting up two or three large generators you have to hook up 100 small ones. Once up and running they have to be so much cheaper to run even with higher maintenance costs because the raw material used to produce the product is free. The real problem with wind is we can’t just go putting them up all over the place. Right now they are studying the effects of wind farms on the wind patterns around 10,000 feet. As they may kick up turbulence and cause problems for small aircraft and the air force’s unmanned drones.
Bill (particularly), as an researcher at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory’s National Wind Technology Center, I have to question your sources on the 9 times as expensive as other energy sources comment. Wind now has a COE around 50%(onshore) to 100%(offshore) higher than coal and gas-powered plants (from a report by the European Wind Energy Association, 2009, as well as the US Department of Energy). And before mentioning subsidies, consider that coal and gas are both heavily subsidized by the government. It is not solely renewable energy that has been supported by the government, we just do not hear about the fossil fuel subsidies because it has been an accepted fact for a significant period of time.
As far as wind turbines kicking up turbulence at 10,000 feet, I have not heard of any research being done on that just yet, so I can only speak from my own knowledge closer to ground: the ideal spacing for wind turbines is based off of wake effects from the turbines, which occur in a linear, spiraling fashion downwind from the turbines to around 10 rotor diameters (~1000m), but not expanding more than 4 rotor diameters (~400m) wide. That puts them up to 750 feet in altitude. I’d have to do more research, but from my own knowledge of wind turbine dynamics, that is my conclusion.
It sounds as though the US jobs point has already been touched upon, but look up NREL’s reports on the effects of Renewable Energy expansion on the US economy to see just what the effects are. They are significantly positive (just look at how even the foreign manufacturing increases traffic in the port!).
As a final point, I’d add that each turbine is designed according to very strict design codes in order to have an operational lifetime of 20 years, and in the capital costs (included, by the way the cost of energy calculations) is a decommissioning cost for the turbines, so that they can be either removed or repowered at the end of that operational lifetime. With the minimal cost of upkeep for these turbines, they will not sit idle.
The turbulence study just started at the University of North Dakota and is a joint project with the air force. I believe they will be studying the effect on the wind patterns in the altitude ranges that light aircraft fly.
The latest on wind power costs, which vary from region to region, is that it is competitive with coal or below 5 cents a KW Hr. That is why nations all over the world are investing in this technology. About a year ago there was an equal number of wind generator parts waiting for shipment out of Duluth for South America. Check the archives here for that. The parts are manufactured in Fargo and Grand Forks. Having viewed these in operation in southern Minnesota, I did not see one maintenance truck at any of the sites. They were running unattended. There is little or no damage to the environment versus coal, oil and natural gas which create a rather large carbon foot print.
If wind power and solar energy are such a bad idea, why is it that my home has been off the grid for the last four years? Yes the upstart costs may be a bit more, but over the first year of use i made a 30% recovery on the total cost. And with it now being four years down the road after the initial investment the local energy company “excel” is now purchasing some of the power from me during peak hours. From a home owner standpoint it is a great idea, and I see no reason why it would be a bad investment for a major corp or energy project for that matter. And looking back at maintaining the turbine, the only thing that i chose to replace in the few years that I have been off the grid is a pillow block bearing assembly. I would also like to state that this part wasn’t worn out by any means. It was just an extra low friction bearing with better built internals. I generate power with wind speeds as low as 2.5 mph and on days that there is no wind there is always the cap cell assembly that you have stored reserve energy in to make due with. My turbine is more than enough to power my home, that being said it is at 5200 sq/ft with a heated pole barn at 50×130. More than enough power to supply both and have extra. I really didn’t mind the extra $1300 in tax exempt income last year either from the peek hour feed.